Forums - Question: Who would win 1 on 1 Sentinel or Blackheart? Show all 56 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Question: Who would win 1 on 1 Sentinel or Blackheart? (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=30941) Posted by SilverGear on 07:18:2001 01:55 AM: Question: Who would win 1 on 1 Sentinel or Blackheart? I know there have been a couple of threads like this (Like Magnus vs Sentinel for example) , but this question has been debated a couple of times between me and a friend. And now I want your opinion. Who would win 1 on 1 (Meaning no assists) in a match between Sentinel Vs. Blackheart? You can answer with something simple like "Blackheart would win" or what-not but I would really like if you went in-depth with your answer. So post away! Posted by Monkey on 07:18:2001 02:01 AM: Sentinel. Blackheart only runs, and when Sentinel gets into his fly mode, you know he's dangerous. Blackheart can stay away for awhile, but Sentinel will easily "track him down". Blackheart's normal attacks cant chip either. Sentinel's do. If the Sentinel player wanted to, he could just sit back and let Blackheart throw demons all day, no block damage. (If Sentinel was winning of course. ) Alot of these questions are hard to answer. All these matches could go either side, it just depends on the players decision. But, I think Sentinel would win this one. (Theres the explaination. ) -m0nkey Posted by SilverGear on 07:18:2001 02:06 AM: good answer. quote: Originally posted by Monkey Sentinel. Blackheart only runs, and when Sentinel gets into his fly mode, you know he's dangerous. Blackheart can stay away for awhile, but Sentinel will easily "track him down". Blackheart's normal attacks cant chip either. Sentinel's do. If the Sentinel player wanted to, he could just sit back and let Blackheart throw demons all day, no block damage. (If Sentinel was winning of course. ) Alot of these questions are hard to answer. All these matches could go either side, it just depends on the players decision. But, I think Sentinel would win this one. (Theres the explaination. ) -m0nkey Thanks for the detailed answer Monkey much appreciated. I'll have to do some thinking and what not before I give my final answer. ^^; Posted by Monkey on 07:18:2001 02:08 AM: Re: good answer. quote: Originally posted by SilverGear Thanks for the detailed answer Monkey much appreciated. I'll have to do some thinking and what not before I give my final answer. ^^; No problem. Posted by reDeFyne on 07:18:2001 02:11 AM: Sentinel. No Doubt. Posted by Naslectronical on 07:18:2001 02:30 AM: Sentinel wins. Sentinel can be in all the places BH doesn't want his opponent to be, and it's not hard for him to get to them and stay there. If BH starts to jump with the demons, Sentinel can jump with him, wait for him to throw the demons, and then knock him down with FP. Sentinel's flight mode is too quick and doesn't allow BH to get above him. If Sent activates flight and then rushes him down, there's little BH can do with Sentinel's all in his face. And all of Sent's moves chip, The only way BH can chip is with Inferno XX HOD, and if Sent rushes him down in flight, BH won't be able to get it off. Basically, all Sent has to do is get above BH, and it's not that hard for him to do. And when BH stays on the ground like that, he gets chipped to death. Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 02:42 AM: Blackheart. If Sent tries to go for flight mode, he can easily be punished via Inferno or Heart of Darkness...possibly even Armageddon depending on the range. The G. Dark Thunder goes under and catches Sent without being canclled out by the Sent Force. If BH dashes often...I don't see how Sent can really own him...since Sent IS a slower character. Air dashing and Air Judgment Day crossups can own Sent before he can land a move....or tricked into doing one. BH has a much better air game overall. Sent chips better, but BH is a much more tactical character that can avoid chipping if played right and cautiously. Blocked Hyper Sent Force = HoD. Missed or blocked Plasma Storm = Air/Ground Judgment Day at close range. Missed Hard Drive...BH lands on the ground and Armageddon's him. Deending on the range...if alot of the meteors hit Sent, that's like close to half his life right there. The Rocket Punch, standing and crouching FP and flight tactics can't save Sent completely. Posted by flesh~n~bone on 07:18:2001 02:57 AM: I love Seni. but i'd have to go with blackheart....yeah he runs .but the reason he runs is so that he can build up his meter to chip.....as for senti and fly mode...lol...blackheart could bring him down real quick...Inferno anyone??? Posted by Doomz Day on 07:18:2001 03:33 AM: ok I see your Blackheart side but im going to have to go with sentinel on this one cause a true sentinel player can handel anything that comes his way. I have played alot of good blackheart players and I have tooking a lot of them down blackheart does not have what it takes to face aganist sentinel. Ive had sentinel ever since I can remeber im a true sentinel player and ive played with blackheart a lot to. In fact he is on my team and he does not have what it takes to beat sentinel Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 03:42 AM: What exactly doesn't he have that can't beat Sent? Strength? If anything, BH has speed and manueverabilty over Sentinel hands down. Posted by Doomz Day on 07:18:2001 04:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide What exactly doesn't he have that can't beat Sent? Strength? If anything, BH has speed and manueverabilty over Sentinel hands down. ok yeah black has speed but the only whay to play with black is to jump up and fk. And if you go in to flight mode your to fast for the demons to hit you. Then black will try to do inferno but by then you will be out of flight mode and haveing black eating a rocket punch and some times the demons will hit sentinel but thay wont grab him. Black might have speed put not enough for sentinel and yeah black is not that strong he does not do that much damage to sentinel. Posted by Ultima on 07:18:2001 05:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Blackheart. If Sent tries to go for flight mode, he can easily be punished via Inferno or Heart of Darkness...possibly even Armageddon depending on the range. The G. Dark Thunder goes under and catches Sent without being canclled out by the Sent Force. If BH dashes often...I don't see how Sent can really own him...since Sent IS a slower character. Air dashing and Air Judgment Day crossups can own Sent before he can land a move....or tricked into doing one. BH has a much better air game overall. Sent chips better, but BH is a much more tactical character that can avoid chipping if played right and cautiously. Blocked Hyper Sent Force = HoD. Missed or blocked Plasma Storm = Air/Ground Judgment Day at close range. Missed Hard Drive...BH lands on the ground and Armageddon's him. Deending on the range...if alot of the meteors hit Sent, that's like close to half his life right there. The Rocket Punch, standing and crouching FP and flight tactics can't save Sent completely. I hereby dub Geocide "The New Stiltman". The above paragraph is classic Stiltman of old: A bunch of nothing "strategy" that looks good on paper, but doesn't actually work in a real match. Only this is even worse than classic Stilt's because it doesn't even work in theory! Please tell me: Under WHAT conditions is "blocked Hyper Sentinel Force = HoD"? Since Sentinel recovers *before* the drones even finish flying, I fail to see how BH is going to have time to pull that super off. I'm asking a serious question here. Plasma Storm? Who the hell uses that super in a real fight unless it's guaranteed damage in a DHC? Hard Drive? Who the hell uses that super *ever* except maybe as a ghetto air-dash a la Guile? And statements like "Sent chips better, but BH is a much more tactical character that can avoid chipping if played right and cautiously" and "The Rocket Punch, standing and crouching FP and flight tactics can't save Sent completely" mean absolutely nothing. From full-screen, low fierce xx Drone Fleet or low-fierce xx Rocket Punch (xx HSF) will keep BH pinned on the ground. No Dark Thunder, no Inferno xx HoD will get through. BH has to superjump to escape. Once he's in the air he's more dangerous because Sent's a big easy target for his infinite, but it's a simple matter for Sentinel to super jump up with BH (fly if necessary), get above him and flying fierce him back to the ground, which puts him near full-screen and BH's back to square one. This isn't even considering rushdown Sentinel, which BH has even *less* chance to deal with without AAA like Commando or Ken to keep Sentinel off his back because BH's air defense is so terrible. Any attempt at Inferno or HoD is going to get clobbered by j.fierce or stomp. Sent's also got much bigger combos off of jump-ins and dash-ins AND takes less damage, making it even more in Sent's favour since BH has to hit Sentinel way more times (not counting the infinite) to kill him and gets fewer opportunities to actually do damage. Posted by IronJay on 07:18:2001 05:24 AM: Nice question, but the answer is simply sentinel. For the most part, sentinel only has one projectile super, and thats drone fleet. (yes I know about his air super, but it does less damage than a rocket punch, and its not really projectile.) who in their right mind cant see drone force coming when they'res like a 3 second delay? You just block, let him keep doing the gay xx rocket bunch xx fierce xx drone fleet, and when hes out of supers, as soon as sent does the last one do armagedon or anyother of his supers cuz they're all gonna fuck him up. Also, when it comes to speed bhs got sentinel down. Sentinel cant fly over to BH because all you need is an inferno or blackhearts demons. But in all honesty, its the player. If you put a good sentinel player against a good sentinel player, whose gonna win? Its one of those questions that has an infinite answer. Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 05:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by Ultima I hereby dub Geocide "The New Stiltman". The above paragraph is classic Stiltman of old: A bunch of nothing "strategy" that looks good on paper, but doesn't actually work in a real match. Only this is even worse than classic Stilt's because it doesn't even work in theory! Uh......Stiltman? And that is...............? quote: Please tell me: Under WHAT conditions is "blocked Hyper Sentinel Force = HoD"? Since Sentinel recovers *before* the drones even finish flying, I fail to see how BH is going to have time to pull that super off. I'm asking a serious question here. Using an assist. My bad...got the situations confused... I did it with Thanos' bubble assist...and while the drones hit him, I did the HoD. quote: Plasma Storm? Who the hell uses that super in a real fight unless it's guaranteed damage in a DHC? I do....only against large characters like BH and Juggy, though...just to land it for quick damage and when they are experiencing lag. From there I DHC into something like Doom's Electric Field HC. quote: Hard Drive? Who the hell uses that super *ever* except maybe as a ghetto air-dash a la Guile? I use it as an air dash...as well as against missed character moves like Spidey's Web Swing...or when characters air dash forward. I usually have an assist backing me up, though. quote: And statements like "Sent chips better, but BH is a much more tactical character that can avoid chipping if played right and cautiously" and "The Rocket Punch, standing and crouching FP and flight tactics can't save Sent completely" mean absolutely nothing. Mean nothing? If you say so. *shrugs* You brought up points I failed to acknowledge, too. Good for you. Now then...I have 2 questions: 1)Did the PS2 argument piss you off so much you have my name in the back of your head? 2)Why are you following me in threads and quoting me? This thread I can understand...but with Zero...you didn't even know what was going on when you threw in insults in a 'play' argument. Can't wait to hear your reasons. (chuckle) Posted by MilkMan on 07:18:2001 05:30 AM: Blackheart would win cuz its impossible for sentinal to exist cuz robots dont exist yet, demons can exist like blackheart, thus, blackheart wins it all cuz sent isnt even there to begin with...*looks around* ......hello?......cough...... Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 05:51 AM: quote: Originally posted by Doomz Day ok yeah black has speed but the only whay to play with black is to jump up and fk. And if you go in to flight mode your to fast for the demons to hit you. Then black will try to do inferno but by then you will be out of flight mode and haveing black eating a rocket punch and some times the demons will hit sentinel but thay wont grab him. Black might have speed put not enough for sentinel and yeah black is not that strong he does not do that much damage to sentinel. Not really. Superjumping gives the demons a much farther reach when you are controlling his movement. Unless he's moving to the opposite direction (which Sent players usually do) he will get hit and brought back down to the ground. Just regular dashing can get BH out of a few situations...and sometimes behind the opponent to counter. Sent can be brought down easy via Armageddon. Most players expect the Rocket Punch while in flight mode. Sentinel is better armed for BH than BH is for Sent...but with such limitations, BH beating Sent isn't impossible. BH might have to rely on assists to overwhelm Sent, though. Posted by Paxtez on 07:18:2001 06:26 AM: Depends: Junk or average BH VS. Junk or average Sent: Sent BH won't be able to control sents movements, and will eventually get beat. Good or great BH VS. good or great Sent: BH Sent won't be able to touch him, if bh wanted, he just just keep raining demons on him, and using the air super to chip whenever he wants, and there is nothing sent can do. If sent gets above bh, bh just has to either inferno, ammrageddon, sj.lp (has insane priority), or various other attacks. A good bh would eat an equlily good sent one on one. Posted by Shadow Rail on 07:18:2001 06:46 AM: cheh Heart of Blackass wins this one. you all made good points for sents, but BH owns him. His sj/j. lp/lk own anything sents tries to do. jumping demons gain you meter, and keep sent away. Sure, sents gives block damage with all hits, but how can he hit you if lp/lk stuffs all of his slow moves? plus, if flying sent got above me, its just infernoxxarmageddon to punish, plus sent will take tons of chip from sj demon super. too big not too. Bh wins this round. soh!!! Posted by Vonstar on 07:18:2001 06:59 AM: sentinel has it easy. the super armor and extra long limbs can take blackfart out easily Posted by Ouroborus on 07:18:2001 08:04 AM: Sentinel. His Lugz and Frying Pan ownz BH fat candy ass. Posted by dhalsim on 07:18:2001 08:05 AM: i have had alot of sent vs bh matches and sent wins all of them all people do is sit back throw monsters a well timed rockey punch or drones would stop black heart easily this match goes to sent. Posted by ex_fuk on 07:18:2001 08:48 AM: I must say that Blackheart wins this one. Sentinel's move usually go to the front of or below him. Blackheart can easily stay above him all day long. Blackheart has fierce demons against flying sentinels and RH demons against grounded ones. Even if Sent get's blacky below him BH still has inferno to bring him back down. I've never lost a BH vs Sent fight where the sentinel didn't have another BH or Capcom assisting him. Even then, it's still pretty close. I like Sent better though. Posted by Dasrik on 07:18:2001 10:10 AM: It depends on who's leading. If Blackheart leads by a comfortable margin, he has an easy time keeping it. Superjump roundhouse, air dash, sj.fierce. Solo Sentinel is kind of hard pressed to do anything but sit there or risk getting pegged by flying demons. If he waits until the RH demons then flies, the fierce demons will get him. If Sentinel's leading, it's a different story, since he can pretty much just block whatever BH throws and look for an opening at his leisure to extend his lead. The edge has to go to Sentinel in closer fights because it's easier for him to chip away at BH's life with normals than it is for BH to ever get Sentinel in a full-blast Inferno XX HOD (which, by the way, you can pretty much forget about using at all unless you can see the future and call a Sentinel sj.rh with a jab inferno). Can we never discuss the whole 1-on-1 shit in MvC2 again, please? Posted by Advent on 07:18:2001 02:55 PM: how can there be a real debate here? sentiel wins, hands down. sombeody already mentioned the whole trap the shit out of bh thing. bh in the air cant chip sentinel and the HOD chips as much as two fp XX rocket punches. not to mention that inferno takes hella long to get started, so once sentinel is in close, PoUnCe~ fly mode, lk,rk,lp rocketpunch = 10% chip armageddon is a good idea, but i dont think that its gonna stop sentinel anyway. finally, demons in the air do not stop sentinel, he can conintue shooting a fp or rk (into a sick ac). Posted by Black Sentinel on 07:18:2001 04:15 PM: Sentinel wins. Sentinel Flight let's him stay above BH, for good. Inferno is too slow to hamper a good Flying Sentinel. BH can't respond to flying, HSF, frying pan and stompdown. Posted by graffiti ext on 07:18:2001 05:01 PM: yea i would have to go with my boy Sentinel on this one.. Posted by Cletus Kasady on 07:18:2001 07:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide I do....only against large characters like BH and Juggy, though...just to land it for quick damage and when they are experiencing lag. From there I DHC into something like Doom's Electric Field HC. It is not much harder and much more practical to just S.Jab -> S.Strong XX Fierce-Rocket Punch XX Kick Super here, as you can repeat the super or launch for an AC. At least if you're in lag...the only real use for Plasma Storm IIRC is if someone just began to hit you with weak attacks and you feel lucky (Your super armor comes into effect. BH does not have this). - Cletus Kasady Posted by flesh~n~bone on 07:18:2001 07:54 PM: Blackheart will win so lets just end it here. Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 08:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by Cletus Kasady It is not much harder and much more practical to just S.Jab -> S.Strong XX Fierce-Rocket Punch XX Kick Super here, as you can repeat the super or launch for an AC. At least if you're in lag...the only real use for Plasma Storm IIRC is if someone just began to hit you with weak attacks and you feel lucky (Your super armor comes into effect. BH does not have this). - Cletus Kasady I don't do the Plasma Storm by itself. I call in assists and cancel the Plasma Strom from another move like the droids or the Rocket Punch(up close). That chain you mentioned is more pratical...and you should know that I do it often. Posted by Dasrik on 07:18:2001 09:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by Advent how can there be a real debate here? sentiel wins, hands down. sombeody already mentioned the whole trap the shit out of bh thing. bh in the air cant chip sentinel and the HOD chips as much as two fp XX rocket punches. not to mention that inferno takes hella long to get started, so once sentinel is in close, PoUnCe~ fly mode, lk,rk,lp rocketpunch = 10% chip armageddon is a good idea, but i dont think that its gonna stop sentinel anyway. finally, demons in the air do not stop sentinel, he can conintue shooting a fp or rk (into a sick ac). It is extremely obvious you haven't a damn clue what you're talking about, so please stay out of this debate. First off, the idea of 2 FP XX Rocket Punch chipping as much as a full-on Inferno XX HOD blocked in the corner is laughable. True, you'll be hard pressed to get it, but the fact is it just takes off a lot more. Your little combo does not take off 10% chip, have you even BOTHERED to look at the strength bar? Also, only the air roundhouse demons will not break Sentinel's super armor. A few air fierce demons will, and if Sentinel is JUMPING he HAS no armor. Please shut up now. Posted by SSF2T on 07:18:2001 09:26 PM: NO CONTEST! BlackHeart Wins. Again, NO CONTEST! There are two types of BlackHeart players... a) Defensive, b) Offensive. I am an Offensive BH players. The defensive type just sj. forward, throw rndh minions/demons, and then air dash back, and throw more rndh minions/demons. Building their meter. Sentinal can take this out simply by following BH, and then dashing in, when BH air dashes back. On the other hand, if you play offensive, and sj. forward throw rndh minions/demons, fall with them, land and then s.sht, s.rndh. Then that's a different story. BH is a heavy guy, so when throwing the rndh air minions/demons, he'll fall with them. Forcing the opponnet to guard/block. Anyways, while this is happening, BH will have already reached the gnd... hopefully... but most of the time you will. Now with the opponnet guarding/blocking, you can s.sht, s.rndh, which will send out more minions/demons, forcing yet another guard/block. This will give you enough time to sj. backwards, throw some more mininos/demons, which will stop Sentinal from Fly Mode. Or he'll just guard/block them. By this time you should have landed already. Giving you another chance to sj. forward, and repeat the process. After awhile the opponnet will catch on to the mini trap, and get out, and knock you around for awhile. Now you must play a little defensive, just jump back throw out the firece minions/demons, so you can get back to the end of the screen again, because, again, he's consider heavy, he'll fall really fast. Sentinal can not hit the minions/demons, except for the mouth beam of his. So using his Rocket Punch, or Supers/Hyper Combos will be useless. So in other words, if you play rush down with BH, Sentinal is dead. Posted by blt on 07:18:2001 10:36 PM: have you guys forgotten about sentinels SUPER ARMOR? sentinel wins, and big time. first off lets consider how much damage bh does by himself, i.e. none compared to sentinels huge damage. secondly can bh really get away from stompings? inferno stops a retard sentinel that flies at full screen..it doesnt do jazz to one thats in your face (u wont be able to get the move out). hard to keep sent at full screen since he has such a fast wavedash. sents frying pan fierce pimps some serious bh in the air btw but the biggest of all is this, and i dont think anyone has mentioned this yet.....sentinels super armor allows him to absorb demons and shorts like they are nothing. he just does not stun easily. in simplest terms, u can do a stand roundhouse in bh's face for free (or when he jumps in). if he had attacked, fine, you get hit for like 1 pixel of damage, then your stand rh nails him and you take 50% from him. hyper sentinel force is good too. bh simply cannot challenge any sentinel move thanks to the armor. all u can do is run away from sent and hope time runs out soon. maybe get some chipping with super, or land a lucky air to air rh heh Posted by Colin on 07:18:2001 10:42 PM: I find myself actually on the same side of an argument as Geocide lol BH wins if both players are very good. If sent ever gets into flight then sj fierces cover such a huge area that they are hard to avoid. If BH can get above sent then he will rape him, and vice versa, but it is so much easier for BH to get avove Sent in this case. Inferno -> HOD is not an issue- flying sent easily avoids this so everyone saying "if sent flies just do inferno -> hod" is being silly, sent can easily totally dodge all that by pressing forward. If you try to do jab inferno and miss it's GAME OVER for BH 3 hsf's later. Whenever sent flies, just get him off of you with a pushblock or something and throw jumping and SJ fierces. Sent will have to remain all the way on the opposite side of the screen to avoid them. If you ever get him to block sj RH then dash forward, fall in with short, a ground combo ending in rh-inferno->hod to chip. Just do not put yourself in a position to get locked down on the ground(stay in the air) and keep an eye out for the frying pan and BH should win this one. BTW on a personal note to geocide please stop trying to find uses for the dark thunder just pretend that BH does not have that move. That is only used in exhibition combos. Also Stiltman has become much better than he was way back on agsf2 so comparing geocide to stiltman is not fair to stilts. -Colin Posted by Colin on 07:18:2001 10:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by blt have you guys forgotten about sentinels SUPER ARMOR? sentinel wins, and big time. first off lets consider how much damage bh does by himself, i.e. none compared to sentinels huge damage. secondly can bh really get away from stompings? inferno stops a retard sentinel that flies at full screen..it doesnt do jazz to one thats in your face (u wont be able to get the move out). hard to keep sent at full screen since he has such a fast wavedash. sents frying pan fierce pimps some serious bh in the air btw but the biggest of all is this, and i dont think anyone has mentioned this yet.....sentinels super armor allows him to absorb demons and shorts like they are nothing. he just does not stun easily. in simplest terms, u can do a stand roundhouse in bh's face for free (or when he jumps in). if he had attacked, fine, you get hit for like 1 pixel of damage, then your stand rh nails him and you take 50% from him. hyper sentinel force is good too. bh simply cannot challenge any sentinel move thanks to the armor. all u can do is run away from sent and hope time runs out soon. maybe get some chipping with super, or land a lucky air to air rh heh BH's fierces in the air keep sentinel from flying in VERY well. Try it if you are ever in this one on one situation(I know, it won't happen, but...) and you'll see. Jump fierce is BH's main weapon against sent. Super armor will not absorb both hits of short, forward from BH, and BH jumps in with two hits on him since he is big. Also, both hits come out fast enough to stuff RH. Sen't main antiair against BH is a snapback but since both people are alone that is a great waste of meter in this case. Basically, you can use SJ fierce, airdash back, see what sent does. If he is flying, then fierce again on the way down to keep him out until you superjump again. If not, then come down blocking. It will become a chip contest and when both characters are alone BH wins that. As long as you are not stupid and don't SJ into a frying pan you will be fine. Like I said, both players have to be very good though. With your average players, sent will always kill BH. -Colin Posted by Starbury on 07:19:2001 12:14 AM: Im a sent player but whenever i play BH one-one i lose. What i tend to do is, if the BH on the ground, i fly then realize that im too far awway to hit him b4 he InfernoxxHOD's me and i cancel flight mode and get hit by that damn super because i dont have unfly. Unfly is pretty damn useful too. Anyways the BH has to really suck it up to lose. For sent, the fierce X rocket punch X HSF doesnt cut it. Also a Super jumping Bh is one hardass mutha to hit. just my two nigahndi's Posted by Geocide on 07:19:2001 02:20 AM: quote: Originally posted by Colin I find myself actually on the same side of an argument as Geocide lol Also Stiltman has become much better than he was way back on agsf2 so comparing geocide to stiltman is not fair to stilts. -Colin You're an idiot. I made a few mistakes...now your ready to jump down my throat? Bite me...asshole. Posted by Geocide on 07:19:2001 02:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by Colin BTW on a personal note to geocide please stop trying to find uses for the dark thunder just pretend that BH does not have that move. That is only used in exhibition combos. Only used in Exhibition combos? So...if I wanted to use it to go through most projectiles..cancel it out...and still hit the opponent...that's not useful? You're an ass. You and those other chumps shouldn't even be talking crap about my strats...you don't find them useful because you can't use them right. Idiot. Posted by SilverGear on 07:19:2001 02:51 AM: You see.... quote: Originally posted by Advent how can there be a real debate here? I brought this up because after going through my mini tournament video collection I noticed that alot of matches that ended with Sentinel vs. Blackheart always ended with Time Overs unless one of the two had lower health then his opponent when his other team-mates died. So it just got me curious that's all. I appreciate all the replies as well. Posted by Naslectronical on 07:19:2001 02:53 AM: Bh only wins if he has a significant lead over BH, say, 30%-40%. In this situation, BH could just out turtle Sentinel until time runs out. In any other situation, the match goes to Sentinel. Sentinel can be in the place that BH does not want his opponent to be, above him and in his face. Once Sentinel's flying, in Blackheart's face, there' little BH can do to get him off of him. All of BH's moves will be snuffed out by Sentinel. Inferno is too slow coming out, BH won't be able to jump, and if he tries his ground dash, Sentinel simply flies over to wherever he materializes and goes right back at it. Only a brain dead Sentinel would activate his flight from a full screen away or when BH is above him. An expert Sentinel would activate flight only when BH is in his view, on the ground, and when he's near BH. And if for some reason Sentinel felt BH might do something to threaten him, his flight cancels in one frame. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 07:19:2001 03:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik Can we never discuss the whole 1-on-1 shit in MvC2 again, please? I second that motion. BH has only to keep Sentinel from getting in unfly in order to win this match. If he puts him in unfly, he can kiss his tail goodbye. -DFA Posted by SSF2T on 07:19:2001 05:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by Colin BH's fierces in the air keep sentinel from flying in VERY well. Try it if you are ever in this one on one situation(I know, it won't happen, but...) and you'll see. Jump fierce is BH's main weapon against sent. Super armor will not absorb both hits of short, forward from BH, and BH jumps in with two hits on him since he is big. Also, both hits come out fast enough to stuff RH. Sen't main antiair against BH is a snapback but since both people are alone that is a great waste of meter in this case. Basically, you can use SJ fierce, airdash back, see what sent does. If he is flying, then fierce again on the way down to keep him out until you superjump again. If not, then come down blocking. It will become a chip contest and when both characters are alone BH wins that. As long as you are not stupid and don't SJ into a frying pan you will be fine. Like I said, both players have to be very good though. With your average players, sent will always kill BH. -Colin Well... I have to agree with this. I was going to mention BH's sj.Firerce XX air dash back. But I guess you already said it. Oh well. What's so special about the Super Armor blt? It only gives BH more time to get away. See, if you were paying attention to what I said about BH vs Sent., and tried it. You would have figured out that, when BH will fall behind the opponnet. So if Sent. does s.rndh, it will miss, giving BH the time to hit him, because he is still taking the hit from the green minions/demons, ehich will stun him, even longer. So s.sht, s.rndh, and then the the green minions/demons will grab him, giving you the chance to HOD. It doesn't matter if he does get out, it will be major chip damage. Posted by Ultima on 07:19:2001 06:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by Colin Also Stiltman has become much better than he was way back on agsf2 so comparing geocide to stiltman is not fair to stilts. I guess so. Still, Geocide's statements are as reminscent of Stiltman in his prime: Technically sound on paper until you actually try it in a real match against real competition (though as I said, it doesn't even look good paper sometimes). He knows nothing of high-level MvC2 play if he claims that Dark Thunder actually has a use in a serious fight. He's also very stubborn like old Stilt, and doesn't realise how clueless he really is. Hence why I dubbed him "the New Stiltman". But I guess it's unfair to Stilt, who has gotten a lot better. So he'll just be Geocide, the Clueless Wonder. Same thing. Anyway, I agree with Naslectronical: BH only wins this match-up (stupid as it may be; 1 on 1 fights are almost irrelevant in MvC2) if he has big lead (or if there's maybe 10 seconds left). If it's close, the advantage is Sentinel's: Sent can get into the areas where BH can't do anything to him (above him and close and from full-screen away on the ground) and stay there for long periods of time, chipping away at BH, and even the slightest opening leads to big damage. A rushdown BH will eat frying pan and take a big chunk of damage and be put back in a disadvantageous position. BH's only hope of *real* damage is Inferno xx HoD (Sentinel can block everything else BH throws out), which he's not going to be able to pull off unless Sentinel does something stupid like activate flight from full-screen away. Posted by Geocide on 07:19:2001 06:31 AM: quote: Originally posted by Ultima I guess so. Still, Geocide's statements are as reminscent of Stiltman in his prime: Technically sound on paper until you actually try it in a real match against real competition (though as I said, it doesn't even look good paper sometimes). He knows nothing of high-level MvC2 play if he claims that Dark Thunder actually has a use in a serious fight. He's also very stubborn like old Stilt, and doesn't realise how clueless he really is. Hence why I dubbed him "the New Stiltman". But I guess it's unfair to Stilt, who has gotten a lot better. So he'll just be Geocide, the Clueless Wonder. Same thing. You're an idiot. Technically sound on paper...and if you can't pull it off in real play...don't mock those who can. You know nothing of play in general if you assume the DT has no use. High level..standard play...scrub play...the move as well as H. DT have their purposes. Maybe your just a scrub who can't use them effectively and get punished all of the time. Blame yourself, not me. Clueless? Sorry...I'm not you. Wouldn't wanna be, either. Your a stuck up S.O.B who thinks he knows shit. God forbid the day you have a nervous breakdown if me and you get into a match and you get owned. Actually...I'd take a pic and post it up here. Ass. Posted by Colin on 07:19:2001 06:50 AM: Okay, just give me one use that dark thunder has that can't be better accomplished by something else. And don't give me answers like "it goes through fireballs" or bs like that since no character that you will ever be fighting worth a damn will be using fireballs they all have BEAMS which all beat DT. Also any blocked DT allows almost any character in the game enough time to kill you even from full screen. But if you can come up with just one thing that DT is good for in a real match against good characters that I cannot refute then you win. Should be simple enough. -Colin Posted by blt on 07:19:2001 06:59 AM: colin: against teh short-fwd chain from bh u would want to have hit roundhouse in anticipation of the short, so it coems out sometime during that short (i.e. fwd never gets a chance to hit). lets say u mess up and get hit by short-fwd. oh that tickles. but if u successfully power through his short with the roundhouse and take 40% instantly. those are some hella odds =p. Posted by Geocide on 07:19:2001 07:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by Colin Okay, just give me one use that dark thunder has that can't be better accomplished by something else. And don't give me answers like "it goes through fireballs" or bs like that since no character that you will ever be fighting worth a damn will be using fireballs they all have BEAMS which all beat DT. Also any blocked DT allows almost any character in the game enough time to kill you even from full screen. But if you can come up with just one thing that DT is good for in a real match against good characters that I cannot refute then you win. Should be simple enough. -Colin *shakes head in shame* Is that how it is in Cali? Everybody playing the same damn top tier characters that it gets to the point where all you can think about is beams? What a bunch of crap. Now then...it's my assumption that...my strats get clowned because people don't do them often elsewhere. Fair enough...but that doesn't mean they are worthless. I fight projectile fighters. I'm going to say it again just to get under your skin because you KNOW it ISN'T CRAP..it's the TRUTH...that it goes through projectiles. From full screen...the H. DT can prevent a big character like Juggernaut from jumping. This being used with Doom's AAA while BH is just a little mid ranged is a pretty decent attempt at keeping somebody in one spot. Or getting it after CapCom's AAA for that extra 'unexpected' hit. Now NO ONE in their right mind is going to use the move as is. It's use is better off being activated in conjunction with backup from an assist. Let's see...how about the H. DT after a Mystic Smash crossup with Shuma? Or the G. DT used along with S. Sam's Ground assist...maybe Hayato's assist...etc. I could go on for a long time. Now if you want more pratical use, there's the fact the G. DT goes UNDER alot of attacks. Good aggainst blocking turtlers...Doom's AAA makes that even better. Oppponent too close? It pushes them way back to the other side of the screen to give you more space to work with. Now the H. DT. Great against flyers. The Inferno isn't that bad where that's concerned...and don't even bother with the HoD afterwards cause it can be blocked in this situation. Or maybe HoD by itself? The demons take too long to come out where a flyer is concerned...more than enough time to dodge. Enter the H. DT. From FS distance, it can nail an opponent up to half a screen away. Pretty accurate most of the time, too. There...now it's your turn to spout some crap like "Blah blah...top level players will never do that"..."blah blah...this can be avoided"..."blah blah who the hell is gonna be in this situation"...and so on. The truth of the matter is no one is perfect...and someone WILL be caught by at least 5 of these scenarios. Posted by Colin on 07:20:2001 01:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide *shakes head in shame* Is that how it is in Cali? Everybody playing the same damn top tier characters that it gets to the point where all you can think about is beams? What a bunch of crap. Now then...it's my assumption that...my strats get clowned because people don't do them often elsewhere. Fair enough...but that doesn't mean they are worthless. I fight projectile fighters. I'm going to say it again just to get under your skin because you KNOW it ISN'T CRAP..it's the TRUTH...that it goes through projectiles. From full screen...the H. DT can prevent a big character like Juggernaut from jumping. This being used with Doom's AAA while BH is just a little mid ranged is a pretty decent attempt at keeping somebody in one spot. Inferno is better in all these situations. The only reason to use the thunder is because you want to find a use for it. Inferno covers more space. I actually do this-inferno with doom assist, then if the inferno hits they fall into doom assist and inferno-hod combos from that. If they block inferno then the doom rocks hold them in stun to cover you. This is an old trick. Doing thunder with the doom assist doesn't really accomplish anything more since it is slower and chips less, not to mention you can't combo afterwards. Plus it is quite easy to superjump between the thunder and the doom assist if you make even the slightest error. Also thunder+doom is suicide against 1. Cable 2. anyone with storm assist 3. another BH. There are probably others I'm not thinking of but those come right off the top of my head. Inferno+doom is safer in every way. Yeah, you beat projectiles with the thunder, but a jumping RH beats them too, as well as the sentinel or storm assist that BH probably has. Both of those are much better and more damaging than sorry ass thunder. Plus people who throw projectiles so predictably that you can thunder them don't exist here anyway. Also an interesting fact is that if you ground thunder an opponent at full screen they can roll and punish you BEFORE YOU RECOVER thusly making using the dark thunder against a grounded opponent dangerous to the point of being stupid. quote: Or getting it after CapCom's AAA for that extra 'unexpected' hit. Now NO ONE in their right mind is going to use the move as is. It's use is better off being activated in conjunction with backup from an assist. Let's see...how about the H. DT after a Mystic Smash crossup with Shuma? Or the G. DT used along with S. Sam's Ground assist...maybe Hayato's assist...etc. I could go on for a long time. Um lol shuma and hayato. Anyway in all of these situations the inferno works better, is safer, and is more damaging if you have levels and tack on the super. If you have no levels, then both moves are suicide if blocked but at least the inferno is safe if it hits whereas the thunder is not. quote: Now if you want more pratical use, there's the fact the G. DT goes UNDER alot of attacks. Good aggainst blocking turtlers...Doom's AAA makes that even better. Oppponent too close? It pushes them way back to the other side of the screen to give you more space to work with. If the opponent is close you would never do a thunder since they will hit you before it comes out. Why you wouldn't just use his low short-forward+assist heavy damage combos in these situations escapes me since you might get 50-75 percent damage from that instead of 8 percent from a thunder where they have a 50/50 chance of rolling behind you and killing you anyway, and blackheart has the highest priority and range on his shorts of almost any character in the game. Regardless I think that the concept of using thunder when the opponent is anywhere near you is laughable since 90 percent of the time you will never get the slow shit out and the other 10 percent they will block, then dash, taunt, take a drink from their coke and still punish your move. If you use an assist to make room first, that's a good idea I guess but you are better off with inferno-hod or taking to the skies or rushing them down with an airdash than trying to throw thunder at them for tons of risk and no reward. quote: Now the H. DT. Great against flyers. The Inferno isn't that bad where that's concerned...and don't even bother with the HoD afterwards cause it can be blocked in this situation. Or maybe HoD by itself? The demons take too long to come out where a flyer is concerned...more than enough time to dodge. Enter the H. DT. From FS distance, it can nail an opponent up to half a screen away. Pretty accurate most of the time, too. First of all, after an inferno hits then the hod COMBOS it cannot be blocked. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Secondly, sentinel and ironman/warmachine, being the only flyers you will ever have to worry about, don't generally fly anywhere except right over your head. A flyer is much better dealt with with a superjumping fierce which covers much more area. A dark thunder is much easier to dodge. Regardless, anytime that a thunder hits an inferno-hod would have also. Sure if they dodge forward while flying you can be hit but same goes for dark thunder and thunder hurts less. quote: There...now it's your turn to spout some crap like "Blah blah...top level players will never do that"..."blah blah...this can be avoided"..."blah blah who the hell is gonna be in this situation"...and so on. The truth of the matter is no one is perfect...and someone WILL be caught by at least 5 of these scenarios. This is where your mistake is. Of course no one is perfect, but you don't have to be perfect to avoid making elementary mistakes like getting hit by slow moves at point blank, or actually allowing yourself to be locked down by thunder, or flying into a dark thunder that you can see coming a mile away. I understand the desire to find a use for the game's useless moves but sometimes there is another move that works much better. -Colin Posted by Colin on 07:20:2001 01:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by blt colin: against teh short-fwd chain from bh u would want to have hit roundhouse in anticipation of the short, so it coems out sometime during that short (i.e. fwd never gets a chance to hit). lets say u mess up and get hit by short-fwd. oh that tickles. but if u successfully power through his short with the roundhouse and take 40% instantly. those are some hella odds =p. Actually BH can do a lot more damage than that off of that jumpin though, even by himself. short-forward, land, short, RH, then they are forced to block inferno-HOD. That takes about 25 percent after all is said and done. Then you are in the best position, across the screen and you can drop some more stuff and chip him more with supers. If you think that sent will predict you jumping in with RH then you can jump in and block and punish him before he recovers with short-forward then a forced blocked inferno-HOD. I agree that it is a hard fight but I still give it to BH 6-4 out of 10. I think that BH has more chipping tools against Sent and it is easier to lock sent into inferno-HOD than it will be for sent to lock down BH in HSF patterns, plus HOD chips a lot more than HSF. Of course if BH gets hit he will lose but avoiding getting nailed by a sentinel by himself is not that difficult with BH. This is my experience from watching Ricky, Choi, and Kim play around here. Southern Cali might feel totally differently but from what I've seen BH has an advantage over Sent if sent does not have Spiral, Commando, or BH assists. Commando/BH take BH the ground where sent works best and Spiral gives Sent the chipping edge he needs to win a war of attrition. -Colin Posted by twelve on 07:20:2001 02:05 AM: everybody wins!!!!! Posted by Geocide on 07:20:2001 07:16 AM: Colin: Your post was understandable...and I'll take everything you said into account in the future. Also...yeah...you hit the nail on the head with the last part. I'm the type that likes to find use for every move even if it's useless in most situations. I'm a firm believer in this...because matches finish much faster when you do something not expected...obviously. As for Shuma and Hayato....heh....what can I say...if it works it works. *shrugs* Posted by Akumanizer on 07:20:2001 10:16 AM: Sentinel has too much weapons. BH, can use Demons, Blizzard xx HoD, AND WHAT ELSE!!! Lightning has too much recovery time, Armageddon can be dangerous for BH if it is blocked. BH has a very hard time suriving by himself. While Sent can fly, rocket punch, HSH, Mouth Beam, drones, great range with rh. Sentinel can hold his own against many, and BH is one of them. Posted by Doomz Day on 07:20:2001 05:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by Akumanizer Sentinel has too much weapons. BH, can use Demons, Blizzard xx HoD, AND WHAT ELSE!!! Lightning has too much recovery time, Armageddon can be dangerous for BH if it is blocked. BH has a very hard time suriving by himself. While Sent can fly, rocket punch, HSH, Mouth Beam, drones, great range with rh. Sentinel can hold his own against many, and BH is one of them. im going to agree with him you can only do one thing with bh.and his moves are a risk to use to much recover time. and Akumanizer HSH? I think you mean HSF. Posted by Colin on 07:20:2001 05:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Colin: Your post was understandable...and I'll take everything you said into account in the future. Also...yeah...you hit the nail on the head with the last part. I'm the type that likes to find use for every move even if it's useless in most situations. I'm a firm believer in this...because matches finish much faster when you do something not expected...obviously. As for Shuma and Hayato....heh....what can I say...if it works it works. *shrugs* Yeah I'm like that too sometimes, I understand that. You always impress people when you do something off the wall to win. Anyway, I apologize for acting like an ass before I just like to argue about stuff like this. I just want to impress upon people just how good the pros at this game really are. I always knew they were good but until I lived here I never really realized the levels that the game could go to. If you had told me 1 year ago some of the things that I take for granted now about the game I would have laughed in your face much like you are doing. But now I have improved to the point where I can beat a vast majority of people, just from playing here. So I just want people to understand that just because it works in Miami or Atlanta(where I lived) or Omaha or wherever that doesn't mean it works everwhere. But anyway sorry about making fun of you and shit that wasn't called for. That doesn't mean I won't still argue with you though if you say something silly :P. -Colin Posted by dhalsim on 07:20:2001 06:24 PM: thread starter make a poll this is going no where ^^ Posted by Strider12 on 07:20:2001 06:28 PM: i am ganna go with BH Posted by g_ngan on 07:20:2001 07:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by Strider12 i am ganna go with BH and the reason is? i go for Sent cause of the combo,chip,super that he has~ and the damage is higher than BH....~ All times are GMT. The time now is 09:25 PM. Show all 56 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.